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Final Fantasy Advent Children [warning: BLAH BLAH BLAH]
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Daryl Surat
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:15 am    Post subject: Final Fantasy Advent Children [warning: BLAH BLAH BLAH] Reply with quote

After years in the making, the highly-anticipated Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children movie is out, and it was everything I expected it to be.

That's not exactly a compliment.

When I saw the initial trailer for it a few years ago, my gut expectation was that it'd be just like other all-CG Asian films like Wonderful Days, Appleseed, or the previous Final Fantasy film, The Spirits Within. That is to say, something pretty to look at with no comprehensible plot to speak of and absolutely overflowing with pretense. I didn't bother watching any of the trailers which would be released thereafter since I figured I'd rather just see the whole piece at once.

In the interest of fairness, I should note that I never really cared much for Final Fantasy VII to begin with. I myself have barely played the game, and I'm somewhat loathe to the whole shebang on account of one incident in my youth where an anime club meeting I'd attended ended up consisting of watching the club president play Final Fantasy VII for over six hours instead of watching Japanese cartoons. Then his 3rd party memory card crapped out and he had to start over from the beginning. The teeming hordes of cosplayers, fanfic authors, and fanartists present at anime conventions and on the Internet have done little to change my mind over the years, though they have given me a fairly decent knowledge of the characters and situations to something I've had relatively little firsthand exposure to. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not the target audience for this film, which is quite obviously a "for fans only" affair, much like the Macross Plus soundtrack CD of the same name. In case you forgot about or never heard of For Fans Only, that CD was so named because all the tracks on it were songs that were already available on the other soundtrack CDs with the exception of about three or so tracks which were quite good, particularly "Dogfight." Sorry, I was never big on "Wanna Be an Angel." Advent Children feels a lot like that CD to me.

I was originally going to write about the plot to this movie, but you know what? The plot to Advent Children doesn't matter. All that stuff about the Lifestream this and Geostigma that is ultimately of little importance unless you're a FF7 fanatic, and even then I'd still say you shouldn't bother with paying too much attention to it because it doesn't really make much sense anyway even if you did spend 100 hours breeding Chocobos or fighting Emerald Weapons or whatever. Despite taking place two years after the game, we neither learn any significant new information about the FF7 world from the story of this film, nor do the characters undergo any new development outside of changes that are made for the film only to be reverted by the end. The net change is zero, but it's not like there's much in the way of characterization in this film anyway since this film takes the "Escaflowne: The Movie" movie approach of having nearly all of the characters be introduced in rapid-fire succession by way of popping up out of nowhere then doing something to essentially communicate the message to the viewer that "HEY GUYS, REMEMBER ME FROM THE ORIGINAL WORK WHICH PRECEDED THIS? WELL HERE I AM IN THIS MOVIE NOW EXHIBITING MY TRADEMARK BEHAVIOR!" before pretty much vanishing. The music feels the same way, as if they thought they had to cram snippets of every single instrumental motif from the game into the movie regardless of relevance. This isn't Nobuo Uematsu's best day.

If there's nothing worthwhile to be found in the plot, what's this movie got going for it? Well, it looks nice. Yes, that's the entirety of my reaction to the visuals of this movie. Not "WOW THIS IS THE MOST MINDBLOWINGLY GORGEOUS VISUALLY INCREDIBLE THING EVER," just "it looks nice." Frankly, I got over THAT reaction within the first few minutes of the film just like I did when watching all those other CG animated movies. The main strength of this film lies entirely in one thing, and it's the same main strength that Appleseed et al had going for them: the action sequences. Unlike the other CG movies I've mentioned, the makers of Advent Children must have been somewhat aware of this fact from the start, as not only do the action sequences constitute a significant chunk of the movie, it's quite obvious that the lion's share of the creative efforts put into this film went into the choreography of these fights. I'll tell you right now, they certainly didn't spend all those years crafting the storyline together. In a stylistic decision that can best be likened to that of wuxia fantasy, the action sequences opt to forego the laws of physics entirely: characters--almost always characters with silvery colored hair of varying lengths--leap and fall the heights of skyscrapers as though they had the weight of a feather and are thrown or hit the distances of entire city blocks without appearing any worse the wear. A great many people don't like this style of action because it requires too much suspension of disbelief, and it's not like I can say they're wrong to think that way because well, it IS completely unbelievable while also being rather inconsistent. But from where I'm standing as someone who's a fan of fighting on the screen, most of those people probably don't know what I'm talking about when I wrote the word "wuxia" just now and are happy to equate any sort of physics-defying action with what they saw in the Matrix trilogy. Then again, a great many people who DO like that style of action probably don't know what I meant by that EITHER, so slightly inaccurate jargon aside, as kinetic as these fight sequences are, there's a glaring flaw to all of these scenes which extends to the non action sequences as well, and that's the editing/directing style. It's a neverending barrage of ultrafast cuts, extreme closeups (often of someone's eyeballs), unnecessary pans and zooms (no Wayne's World references, please), and all the other "MTV style editing" tricks (I honestly can't remember if there was "shakycam" or not) commonly utilized in your typical "action movie starring a rapper" flick in order to hide the fact that the people in question aren't actually doing anything of note themselves since they're unable to perform what the script calls for. Such things are not an issue in an animated movie like this where the CG "actors" can do anything the animators can imagine, so to Tetsuya Nomura or Takeshi Nozue or whoever's responsible for doing this shit, I got one thing to say: while I understand that you're REALLY proud of the level of intricate details present in your CG characters and set models, there is no need to have the camera constantly zipping and zooming around nonstop to show off those details. You're making a movie, not an Nvidia tech demo.

Suffice it to say that, for better or for worse, the action scenes look like they're something you'd see out of a video game, which--hey, what do you know!--they are. If you've ever played the Devil May Cry series of games, the cutscenes in those should give you an idea of what to expect. Ultimately, that's all this entire movie is: a theatrical length videogame cutscene. For some, that's a plus, but I think it's kind of disappointing since the film could have been more than that without too much effort. The most entertaining non-action aspects of the film came from the interplay between the supporting characters such as the Turks and all the heroes once gathered aboard the airship, because those scenes don't take themselves seriously. That's really what this movie needed: someone at the helm willing to channel the spirit of a Go Nagai or Jun Kawagoe or Yasuhiro Imagawa and just make the non-action sequences consist of something like "yeah, I'm a guy with a cool transforming motorcycle and a big sword and I'm totally going to fuck up anyone who gets in my way, like THOSE GUYS RIGHT OVER THERE." But alas, that's not what the brooding angst junkies which constitute the core FF7 fanbase want to see. They want to see Cloud and Vincent being emo, and they REALLY want to see Sephiroth and Aerith do stuff even though they're dead because this is SERIOUS BUSINESS to them. And uh, I guess they also want to see annoying kids because there's a good bit of those to be found too. On those notes, this film certainly delivers, so while it's not exactly of the jiggly Gainax variety, it's not unfair to say that fanservice runs rampant in this movie. Pity I'm not much of a fan.

Bottom line: Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children entertained me, but it's completely forgettable and is not what I would consider a good movie. I don't plan to go out of my way to watch it ever again. Two stars out of four for the fights alone.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Advent Children [warning: BLAH BLAH BLAH] Reply with quote

Daryl Surat wrote:
That's really what this movie needed: someone at the helm willing to channel the spirit of a Go Nagai or Jun Kawagoe or Yasuhiro Imagawa and just make the non-action sequences consist of something like "yeah, I'm a guy with a cool transforming motorcycle and a big sword and I'm totally going to fuck up anyone who gets in my way, like THOSE GUYS RIGHT OVER THERE."


If the movie had been just the fights (directed more comprehensibly, PLEASE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE), and this in between, I would have been overjoyed with it. It's cool to make a no-plot no-bullshit action movie, but the thing is, for it to work, you have to leave out the bullshit.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl Surat wrote:
I never really cared much for Final Fantasy VII to begin with.


You aren't going to be invited to too many Fujikoma parties with that attitude Very Happy

Quote:
Ultimately, that's all this entire movie is: a theatrical length videogame cutscene.


That doesn't surprise me. I kept swearing Advent Children was a remake of FF7 for the PS2 or PS3. From the stuff I saw and heard about it, it didn't look like a movie.

In fact, the tech demo comment is right. It looks like glossied-up, prerendered something that Squeenix would be showing at E3 instead of a finished product. Don't even ask about the gameplay.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have so far successfully enjoyed ignoring the whole thing completely, and that includes owning the original FINAL FANTASY for the original NES and never even taking it out of the box.

I will say, however, that it's great the people who make these games have finally realized that what they really want to do is make movies. Perhaps they'll quit shoving their stupid little cut-scene dramas into what were once perfectly servicable games.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would I enjoy this movie considering that the sum total of my knowledge of FFVII is "Aeris dies"?
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Young Freud
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

davemerrill wrote:
Have so far successfully enjoyed ignoring the whole thing completely, and that includes owning the original FINAL FANTASY for the original NES and never even taking it out of the box.

I will say, however, that it's great the people who make these games have finally realized that what they really want to do is make movies. Perhaps they'll quit shoving their stupid little cut-scene dramas into what were once perfectly servicable games.


You're not the only one who think's that, Dave:

Shigeru Miyamoto wrote:
"I don't want to criticize any other designers, but I have to say that many of the people involved in the industry -- directors and producers -- are trying to make their games more like movies. They are longing for or yearning for making movies rather than making video games."


And when he made that statement, the creator of Donkey Kong and Super Mario Bros. was talking about SquareSoft, right before they made FF:TSW, folded and had to merge with Enix in order to survive.
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Mike Toole
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guys i found the american dvd cover:
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Charred Knight
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Young Freud wrote:
davemerrill wrote:
Have so far successfully enjoyed ignoring the whole thing completely, and that includes owning the original FINAL FANTASY for the original NES and never even taking it out of the box.

I will say, however, that it's great the people who make these games have finally realized that what they really want to do is make movies. Perhaps they'll quit shoving their stupid little cut-scene dramas into what were once perfectly servicable games.


You're not the only one who think's that, Dave:

Shigeru Miyamoto wrote:
"I don't want to criticize any other designers, but I have to say that many of the people involved in the industry -- directors and producers -- are trying to make their games more like movies. They are longing for or yearning for making movies rather than making video games."


And when he made that statement, the creator of Donkey Kong and Super Mario Bros. was talking about SquareSoft, right before they made FF:TSW, folded and had to merge with Enix in order to survive.


He also made that statement just after the company he worked for got their asses kicked because the Playstation had games like FF VII, and Metal Gear Solid.

Its a potshot at the more sophisticated games that where quickly becoming the standard. While Square made an idiotic mistake by making a movie that was basically gauranteed failure, Miyamoto has made the mistake of using cartridges when they where outdated, and for not planning any video games aimed at Adults.

Also davemerrill how old are you? It sounds like your 50, come on man, are you saying you don't think GTA, and Metal Gear are great games? It sounds like your longing for the days of pong.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never played any of the Metal Gear games; the storyline sounded ludicrous, and I suck at anything involved sneaking around or actually hitting what I aim at.

As for GTA, I've played a bit of Vice City, and the main game with the missions bored me to tears. Even random bouts of senseless mayhem and cheat-code induced violence lost their charm after a while.

Great games? I wouldn't know.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gokiburi_Chachacha wrote:
Never played any of the Metal Gear games; the storyline sounded ludicrous, and I suck at anything involved sneaking around or actually hitting what I aim at.

As for GTA, I've played a bit of Vice City, and the main game with the missions bored me to tears. Even random bouts of senseless mayhem and cheat-code induced violence lost their charm after a while.

Great games? I wouldn't know.


Actually, the Sneaking is pretty easy, and you just have to move around in a way that they can't see you.

Only Metal Gear Solid 2 has a ridiculous storyline about the USA, being secretly controlled, by the Patriots, who FAKE PRESEDENTIAL ELECTIONS! It makes no sense, is pretentious as hell, and the main character is Raiden, a feminine bishonen that looks like he belongs in a Shoujo magazine. Probably one where his an angel

Metal Gear Solid is about Solid Snake's attempt to stop liquid Snake and Fox Hound(the organization he was once a part of) from using the new Metal Gear Rex, from launching a nuke at Washington.

The third is about Snake's father, the original Snake, who must stop the Soviet's new secret weapon which can launch a nuke from a tank(a primitive version of Metal Gear), they wisely stay away from Kennedy's assasination, and deals with the military intrigue of the Cold War.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charred Knight wrote:
words


Enough of that, LET'S PLAY VIRTUA FIGHTER

On the topic of Advent Children, the most prominent thought in my mind as I watched parts of it (haven't bothered with the whole thing yet) was that there is no other game company out there that panders to the screaming fangirl contingent like Squeenix does. I could see S-E practically shoving their hands down the panties of the female viewership at many, many points.

In contrast, Tifa barely gets a panty shot. It's not hard to figure out which audience segment is really being catered to with this one.

I must say, though, that Reno and Rude are stupidly amusing. I think I'd prefer a movie with just them acting like dorks the whole time.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charred Knight wrote:


He also made that statement just after the company he worked for got their asses kicked because the Playstation had games like FF VII, and Metal Gear Solid.

Its a potshot at the more sophisticated games that where quickly becoming the standard. While Square made an idiotic mistake by making a movie that was basically gauranteed failure, Miyamoto has made the mistake of using cartridges when they where outdated, and for not planning any video games aimed at Adults.

Also davemerrill how old are you? It sounds like your 50, come on man, are you saying you don't think GTA, and Metal Gear are great games? It sounds like your longing for the days of pong.


I'm 36, is that close enough? I've never played GTA East St. Louis or Metal Gear Polygonal. In fact, name a video game that wasn't in an arcade circa 1984 and chances are I haven't played it. I'm just not a big video game player. I bought a PS2 last year and it was the first new video game system I've ever bought in my entire life (I've bought plenty of Atari 2600s, Intellivisions, and Odysseys at garage sales, though) - and I bought it because I wanted something I could play the Namco Museum's BOSCONIAN on. The last video game I bought was a CD Rom of Atari games that came in a box of Lucky Charms.


I think, however, that Shigeru Miyamoto has made enough CORRECT decisions in the video game industry to be allowed a few less than brilliant moves.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Toole wrote:
guys i found the american dvd cover:


Oh man. I'm totally putting that in the AWA panel. Whether it's Totally Lame Anime or the Panel OF DOOM remains undecided, but I think I'll follow my heart on this one. With any luck, I'll even get video of the crowd reaction!

Anyway, I agree with the notion that the problems of this film are due to the fact that it's a movie made by videogame designers as opposed to people with an actual understanding of cinema. In that sense, I suppose all the problems with regards to editing and pacing make sense. Guess I'll add "the folks at Square Enix" to my "people who should really stop writing things themselves and should instead just draft up a list of points for where they want their story to go so that they may let someone capable fill in the blanks while they stick to making pretty pictures" list, which includes such illustrious names as CLAMP and Kentaro Miura. Masamune Shirow would be on there, except he's not even making pretty pictures anymore.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl Surat wrote:
Mike Toole wrote:
guys i found the american dvd cover:


Oh man. I'm totally putting that in the AWA panel. Whether it's Totally Lame Anime or the Panel OF DOOM remains undecided, but I think I'll follow my heart on this one. With any luck, I'll even get video of the crowd reaction!


I'll be there to ruin your video with my mug Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ANIMEJUMP IN THE HOUSE AT THE AWA

Daryl, we have to get Nazi uniforms and crash the Fujikoma party, since we got banned in 2004. Apparently.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er, I mean, YOU have to get one, NATURALLY I have my own Nazi uniforms, being a Nazi and all.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charred Knight wrote:
Also davemerrill how old are you? It sounds like your 50, come on man, are you saying you don't think GTA, and Metal Gear are great games? It sounds like your longing for the days of pong.


For my money GTA and MGS are about the worse two choices you could've made to prove your point.

The MGS series have intensely fun gamepaly WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GET TO PLAY IT, which is to say that the game is very fun when you don't find yourself sitting through forty-five minute cutscenes. The first game was pretty good, but they've just been getting more and more ludicrous from there as Kojima injects more of his personal biases into them. Maybe if he quit we'd actually get a servicable game. It worked for Zone of the Enders 2!

GTA sucks, plain and simple. It's boring and repetitive and made for teenagers (and people of that same mental age) who can actually stand, much less enjoy, running over the same person fifteen times and thinking it's cool.

Advent Children looks like crap, and I've been told it is in as many words by my "evil pirate roommate" who downloaded it from some magical faerie internet that I don't understand. It's just as well, 'cause I have no interest in sitting through a movie made to please some of the most annoying fans on the market.

Dirge of Cerebus could be cool though!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Toole wrote:
guys i found the american dvd cover


It's good to see that Cloud finally went through with the Gackt facelift.

Waitaminnit. Good?

Well, I guess for all the employees at Square whose pay is directly proportional to panty-wetting it is.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for Advent Children itself, I saw Spirits Within, so I know what kind of disasteriffic attempt at plot and characterization I'm going to be dealing with. I don't mind, really. I just want it to look purty.

Appleseed was ludicrous, but I bought it anyway, because I found the visuals interesting.

I'm not expecting another Grave of the Fireflies here. Just something that looks shiny and has lots of explosions. Although I could certainly do without the yaoi-tastic character designs on every male character other than Barret and Cid.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gokiburi_Chachacha wrote:
As for Advent Children itself, I saw Spirits Within, so I know what kind of disasteriffic attempt at plot and characterization I'm going to be dealing with. I don't mind, really. I just want it to look purty.

Appleseed was ludicrous, but I bought it anyway, because I found the visuals interesting.

I'm not expecting another Grave of the Fireflies here. Just something that looks shiny and has lots of explosions. Although I could certainly do without the yaoi-tastic character designs on every male character other than Barret and Cid.


But Rude is just to sexy not to be Yaoi-tastic. Also it could be worse, the original design for Sephiroth made him look like Marilyn Manson, thank god they gave him a much more muscular frame.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since when are bald, muscular men yaoi-tastic?

...

Oh. Sad
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Toole wrote:
guys i found the american dvd cover:


Mike, you are my hero.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who got the impression that this was aimed SQUAREly (hurhur) at the squealing buttlove fangirls. I I suck dick'd at emo Cloud.

But hey, his lego sword was totally killer! Very Happy

This film was pretty much what I expected. But unlike Mr. Surat, I don't feel that this is necessarily a bad thing. That said, his assertions about the movie are pretty much true. Daryl Surat
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...how do I revive Aeris?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a Phoenix Down, obviously.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one actually liked Spirits Within and even I have no desire to see Advent Children. Maybe it's because I thought FFVII's story went downhill the moment you left that big city in the beginning, maybe it's the fact that I found the dog to be the most interesting character, maybe it's because I have a huge dislike for FF fans. I don't know, but either way, I won't be touching this movie with a ten foot pole.

On the topic of video game and movies converging, I just have this to say. MGS and MGS2 were great games, but I never finished them due to the unnecessarily lengthing cut-scenes. A better example would be the Half-Life games. Just as cinematic as any movie, but no cut-scenes. Nothing to remove you from the game. You aren't just watching some generic action hero, you ARE the generic action hero.
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